原标题：内部审计可能为错误的“个体”工作——而不是为错误的“人群”工作

IIA（国际注册内部审计部协会）是一个全球性组织。我作为IIA的负责人--总裁和首席执行官，经常有机会与那些享有一定知名度的人打交道，比如：各国元首、美国国会议员、联合国秘书长以及各种外交官、学者和演员。

虽然他们在各自领域的知识和卓越表现帮助他们提升到了名人的地位，但他们对内部审计的知识和欣赏通常是有限的。美国奥斯卡奖得主、演员理查德·德莱弗斯(Richard Dreyfuss)则是一个引人注目、而且令人耳目一新的例外。

著名的德莱弗斯的演艺生涯跨越了50多年，他在广受好评的ABC迷你剧《麦道夫》中出演了臭名昭著的伯尼·麦道夫。但正是他在好莱坞之外的工作，使得他对公共和私营部门的责任、信任和透明度的重要性有了深刻的认识。他致力于提高透明度和推广问责制，特别是政府的透明度和问责制，这在他创立“德莱弗斯公民倡议基金会”过程中得到了充分体现。这个非营利性的、无党派的基金会成立于2008年，其目标是重振“美国公共教育中的公民教育，让未来几代人拥有实现美国公民身份的巨大潜力所需的批判性思维技能。”该组织网站上说。

为了准备和德莱弗斯共同主持会议开幕式，在之前的非正式会谈时，我与他进行了数个小时的深入讨论。在那段时间里，我清楚地意识到，他对我们所做的一切充满热情和真诚。

在大会开幕式上，当他面对2500多名与会者讲话时，这一点非常明显。有几次他直接对与会者说：“你们这些人正在为错误的人群工作。”他的观点是：内部审计提供独立的确认、推广问责制和提升透明度，这些工作太重要了，以致不能呆在组织内。

他的观点让我有些不舒服，我怀疑很多与会者也有同感。内部审计的一个基本事实是，我们的工作是组织内部的工作。我最初的想法是，德莱弗斯根本不了解内部审计的工作原理。但是，我越思考他的观点——坦白地说，我有一段时间无法摆脱这些观点——我就越相信他是正确的。

有时候，我们的确在为错误的人群工作。

需要说明的是，德莱弗斯指的是在公司内部、向董事会和高级管理层汇报工作的内部审计结构。他说：“你们这些人正在为错误的人群工作。”这一点我不同意。但我确实认同，有时“错误的个体”占据了董事会和高管层。

通常，挑选董事会成员，并不是这些人懂得什么，而是因为这些人认识谁。通常，董事会成员们更满足于与人打交道。通常，CEO或董事会主席的动机只是为了自己的利益，而不是为了公司的利益。最近，我们在世界各地的企业丑闻中看到了太多这样的例子。

但重要的是要明白，当这种情况发生时，缺陷不在于结构，而在于在结构中占据关键角色的个体。

良好的治理是复杂的，需要过程中的每个关键参与者都是有效的。这需要一个充满好奇心、见多识广、持怀疑态度、随时准备支持独立和客观确认功能的董事会。这需要支持长久成功而不是短期收益的、并积极支持独立的以增强和保护组织价值为唯一目标的确认功能的高级管理层。

当董事会或高级管理层未能履行他们在治理方面的承诺时，内部审计的工作就会变得困难得多。

经常有从业人员问我，如何才能最好地解决可能让他们丢掉工作的禁忌话题。我的标准答案是，内部审计人员必须有勇气接受这个职位带来的挑战。在我的第二本书《值得信赖的顾问：优秀内部审计人员的关键特质》中，我将勇气定义为:“即使面对职业或个人危险，也要足够勇敢，去做正确的事情。”但是当你的上级和你周围的人没有做正确的事情的时候，这样做是特别困难和令人沮丧的。

最近倒闭和有丑闻的企业数量正引发人们对董事会、高级管理层和内部审计的不满。投资者和监管机构正在寻求更大的问责和透明度。但我们不能在真空中审视这种对利益相关者日益增长的不满和压力。

技术的飞速发展和全球相互依存的加剧正在使风险和破坏呈现加速态势。处理这些问题的能力要求治理过程中的所有参与者都处于他们的最佳位置。内部审计必须适应不断变化的技术、培养与利益相关者的相互支持关系，以及在出现问题时敢于直言，以此来支持良好的治理。

我们的目标应该是与利益相关者建立理想的工作关系，从而实现高效的内部审计和高质量的治理。只有这样，我们才能说我们在为正确的“个体”和正确的“人群”工作。

一如既往地期待着您的评论。（源自2019年7月15日IIA官网）

InternalAudit May Work for the Wrong Individuals — But Not the Wrong "People"

RichardChambers July 15, 2019

My role as the head of a globalorganization offers me the opportunity to interact with people who enjoy acertain amount of celebrity and fame. Serving as president and CEO of The IIAhas afforded me the opportunity to meet the heads of states, members of theU.S. Congress, the secretary-general of the United Nations, and assorteddiplomats, scholars, and actors.

While their knowledge of and excellence intheir respective fields helped elevate them to the status of celebrity, theirknowledge and appreciation for internal auditing is generally limited. Onenotable and refreshing exception is American Academy Award-winning actorRichard Dreyfuss, the keynote speaker at the recently completed 2019 IIAInternational Conference.

Dreyfuss' celebrated acting career spansmore than 50 years, including his role as the infamous Bernie Madoff in thecritically acclaimed ABC mini-series, Madoff. But it is his work outside ofHollywood that has cemented his views on the importance of accountability,trust, and transparency in the public and private sectors. His commitment toimprove transparency and accountability, especially in government, ismanifested in the creation of The Dreyfuss Civics Initiative. The nonprofit,nonpartisan foundation was formed in 2008 with the aim of reviving "theteaching of civics in American public education to empower future generationswith the critical-thinking skills they need to fulfill the vast potential ofAmerican citizenship," according to the group's website.

In preparing to host the "FiresideChat" with Dreyfuss that kicked off the conference, I got to spend severalhours in deep discussion with him. During that time, it became clear to me thathis passion for what we do is intense and sincere.

That was quite evident as he spoke to morethan 2,500 conference attendees at the opening general session. On severaloccasions he addressed the audience directly and said, "You guys areworking for the wrong people." His point: Internal audit's work providingindependent assurance, accountability, and transparency is too important to bekept within the organization.

His comments were jarring to me, as Isuspect they were for many in the audience. One of the fundamental truths aboutinternal auditing is that our work is internal to the organization. My initialthought was that Dreyfuss didn't understand the workings of internal auditafter all. But the more I pondered his comments — I frankly couldn't shake themfor some time — the more I came to believe that he is correct.

Sometimes, we do work for the wrong people.

To be clear, Dreyfuss was referring to thestructure of internal audit working within the organization and reporting tothe board and executive management when he said, "You guys are working forthe wrong people." I disagree. But I do agree there are times when"the wrong individuals" occupy boardrooms and C-suites.

Too often board members are chosen becauseof who they know, not what they know. Too often board members are content to goalong to get along. Too often CEOs or board chairmen are motivated by what'sbest for themselves and not what's best for the organization. We have seen toomany recent examples of this in corporate scandals around the world.

But it is important to understand that whenthis happens the deficiency is not with the structure but with the individualsoccupying key roles within that structure.

Good governance is complex and requireseach key player in the process to be effective. It requires a board that isinquisitive, informed, skeptical, and ready to support independent andobjective assurance. It requires executive management that supports long-termsuccess over short-term gains, and supports an independent assurance functionwhose sole aim is to enhance and protect organizational value.

When boards or executive management fail touphold their end of the governance bargain, it makes the work of internalauditing that much harder.

I am often asked by practitioners how bestto address taboo subjects that could cost them their jobs. My standard answeris that internal auditors must have the courage to take on the challenges thatcome with the role. In my second book, Trusted Advisors: Key Attributes ofOutstanding Internal Auditors, I define courage as, "being brave enough,even in the face of professional or personal danger, to do the rightthing." But it is especially difficult and disheartening to do so whenthose above you and around you are failing to do the right thing.

The number of recent corporate failures andscandals is driving dissatisfaction with boards, executive management, andinternal audit. Investors and regulators are seeking greater accountability andtransparency. But we can't examine this growing discontent and pressure onstakeholders in a vacuum.

Technology advancing at warp speed andincreasing global interdependencies are accelerating risks and disruptions. Theability to cope with them requires all players in the governance process to beat the top of their game. Internal audit must support good governance byadapting to changing technologies, nurturing mutually supportive relationshipswith stakeholders, and having the courage to speak out when things go awry.

Our aim should be to cultivate idealworking relationships with our stakeholders that lead to effective andefficient internal audit, and high-quality governance. Only then we can say weare working for the right individuals and the right people.

As always, I look forward to your comments.